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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  February 4, 2011 5:00pm-5:59pm EST

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nbc will shut down the information. >> the citizen reporter movement which is rising throughout the world right now is still not enough to do the job for the media. we still need the trained professional of the media to go into the middle of the road. >> it doesn't make the black-out absurd. it's going to get out. >> they're trying to shut down twitter. >> they don't stand a chance. chris matthews starts right now. good evening. leading off tonight, the calm after the storm. thousands of anti-government protesters were back in the streets of cairo today, this time with little interference from the promubarak supporters.
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a debate has broken open on this side of the atlantic. is the obama administration pushing too hard to show mubarak the door? plus what are we to make of the muslim brotherhood who is angling to step into the breach. is it just waiting for its moment to seize control and short circuit the process? bad news, good news. the economy only created 36,000 new jobs but the unemployment rate dropped from 9.4% to 9%. that's the number that the public pays attention to. i think he needs to get the number down to 8 in order to win reelection. i have been saying this is the oshkosh election. sunday's super bowl has the same theme. pittsburgh versus green bay. politics and the super bowl later in the show. let me finish with a major american president born 100
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years ago this sunday. we start with egypt. joining me from cairo is ron allen. ron, i guess the best question is what happened today in this ongoing saga? >> reporter: we have been asking ourselves that question today. chris, what does all this mean? where are we now? the opposition declared that next week will be a week of resistance. we had a friday farewell day and none of that happened. the opposition is now in a position where they have the try to find ways to rally their troops. they have a passion, a lot of energy out in the streets tonight. in the square tonight. there are still tens of thousands of people vowing to stay there through the night and stage what is becoming a sit-in. the question is can they maintain that? especially as the workweek begins on monday? we understand that the opposition leaders are telling people they should go to work on monday and protest on tuesday to
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try to deal with the reality here that a lot of people in this community need to get back to work to earn money. they want their kids to go back-to-school. students want to go back to school. they need to get the country running again because the protests have ground the entire place to a halt. the government is remaining steadfast. the prime minister again tonight said that there is no intention by president mubarak to leave. it's very unlikely that's going to happen, he said. that remains their position. mubarak is digging in. he keeps making concessions and gestures that he hopes will give him more time. because again, at the end of the day today, there is no indication that he is going to step down. >> the latest offer as i understand from the president's palace is he won't run for reelection in september. his son will not run. they're going to have dialogue with the muslim brotherhood. what is the demand from the streets? this is what i have never figured out.
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are they willing to accept the army taking over? putting suleiman in the place of mubarak and holding free elections, real elections this september? is that enough? >> reporter: it gets complicated. the opposition demand has always been that mubarak step down, pure and simple, bottom line, you got to do that. and that apparently is not going happen. it hasn't happened yet. there is every indication that they are trying to play the situation in a way that mubarak does not have to do that. in a way that where he does become a ceremonial leader. the other question is what has to happen in this country in order to have a free and fair election and how quickly can that happen? the elections are scheduled for september. can the apparatus of state, can the media be altered? can the real knitty gritty of the election happen free and fairly? the dynamics change now between
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now and september. some say it can. what do you do in the interim. we're talking about a seven month period. some will say to the opposition you have gotten enough. chill out. it's only seven months and they will say the same thing to mubarak, it's only seven months you have had 32 years. >> president obama was asked today if mubarak needs to step down in order for reform to begin. here is what the president said here in america. let's listen. >> once the president himself announced that he was not going to be running again. since his term is up relatively shortly, the key question he should be asking himself is how do i leave a legacy behind in which egypt is able to get through this transformative period and my hope is that he
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will end up making the right decision? >> ed walker served as assistant secretary of state. can't have a better guest than you, sir. what do you see it heading towards? >> i see it heading towards a stronger military position, taking the role of guarantaruarf the state and the maintain the credibility with the military and the street. clearly it has credibility. >> if the military comes out on full uniform and declares to the street with all the television power they have over there and says mr. mubarak is going on permanent leave. he is not going to be our active president, but he is not leaving the country. he is under our protection. we will rule until the open
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elections are held in september. mr. suleiman will be the head of government. will that stop the rioting and protesting? >> it will stop the rioting. all but the most committed rioters. there has to be guarantees in there. people are fed up with the promises of government. they want to have concrete steps taken such as changing the constitution so that political process can take place. opening the door for all parties to have discussions and be a part of the decision making process. >> i don't think i have ever heard of this happening before. the u.n. ambassador, susan rice, apparently openly says we got to get rid of mubarak. the head of the security council and the secretary of state hillary clinton say no, slow down on this. stop pushing this guy so pubically. how can you leak out the situation? isn't that supposed to be the
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high security room? >> it's only high security until the participants walk out the door and let their stories be known. susan is correct. mubarak -- there is no way you can solve this thing with mubarak in place. what the secretary of state is saying is let's try and make this so it's a rational transition and you're not going to turn the play over to chaos. i don't believe it will go over into chaos but they have got to be more forceful to prove to the people that mubarak is not coming back. this is the end of this particular regime. >> you know, my concern trying to figure out what is best for us, best for egypt, best for our relationship like most americans, i'm thinking could it be that mubarak has one point? you don't let a mob pick a government? this is no environment. you don't know the culture this is not the french revolution.
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let's make this the american constitution. we have a constitutional process and proven to have a better government than the one we dumped in london. have better than what you had before, not worse. most go to worse in third world countries. so let's not cheer for the mob to make the decision. let's cheer for the mob to maybe get the government to make the right decision. >> isn't that what the president is saying? not cheering iffer tfor transition. have an orderly transition in which steps are taken. one, two, three. >> seems to me in cooling it down, get the people off the street. have a military sort of hammer that says we're going to have calm for six months. that's the protector of the peace. and a clearly open door to a new kind of government. >> open door and a number of immediate steps that are taken that gives credibility. >> appreciate you coming on. edward walker.
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coming up, we will talk -- we talked a lot about the muslim brotherhood. are they willing to walk into this power vacuum? of course they are. the question is is that good for us? they say they will renounce violence. that's what they said. once they get some power, would the brotherhood turn it into an islamic state like iran? you're watching "hardball." get 'em boys! ♪ ♪ [ all slurping ] [ whistle blows ] winner! come on ref! mcenroe?! mcenroe?! mcenroe?! i thought you retired? this isn't the end! ♪
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68 point gap. the biggest of any president at this point in his term and the fourth largest in history. only the fourth, fifth, and six years of the george w. bush had this gap. we're getting used to this gap. we'll be right back. at, where customers save an average of $293 a month. call lendingtree today. your rates don't have to go up just because of an accident.
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welcome back to "hardball." in the post mubarak era -- some of the world's most dangerous terrorists were once members of the muslim brotherhood. what would an empowered brotherhood mean to the item if it got into power? with me is the author of the longest war. there it is. it is your employment. here we are. let me go. here is what.
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you are reporting first of all. muslim brotherhood. bad news for the united states if they get a chunk of the power? >> indifferent. not bad news. this is a group that is engaged in congressional politics in egypt for decades now. their attitude is going to be different than mubaraks, but i think they have participated in elections in a peaceful way for a long time. something they have been criticized for by al qaeda. >> did they route for al qaeda? >> no. al qaeda's number two who was, as you pointed out, a member of the muslim brotherhood has written a book in denunciation. >> you know your material, but who killed -- >> it was the islamic group and jihad group, shoots off the brotherhood. >> were they part of that? when they got gunned down in the
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parade, where they cheering for that? were they happy for that? >> they wrrnlt involved in the attack. >> did they cheer his death? >> i don't know, chris. >> i know where your heart is and sentiment is. in the end, that is who you end up backing. >> this group has played ball with mubarak for a very long time. it's not like they are looking for some sort of revolution in egypt. i would make the point that anybody who bombs an abortion clinic in america is a christian fundamentalist but very few christian fundamentalists bomb abortion clinics. this is a very, very large group and the militant groups are very, very small. >> let me draw a distinction. i would say the republican forces of ireland supported the
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ira. you don't want a group that will give protection to a terrorist group. would the muslim brotherhood economically support terrorists? >> i don't think so. we have to look at the nature of egyptian society. these militants completely destroyed themselves with their actions in the 90. >> okay. your view? muslim brotherhood in egypt? a danger to the united states? >> first of all when i look at what's happening in tahrir square it's about what started it off was young people who were disaffected, socially economically and politically. they want political freedom. they are done with this regime. the other movements, in a way it's a good thing that they didn't get involved right there. this thing would have been over a long time ago. they finally jumped on the band
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wagon. it was expected. if there is a new government in egypt as peter said, muslim brother hood would be part of it. would they be calling the shots in the government? a lot of people would think that it's insanity to think that. yes there is a lot of concern. >> the hamas group that took over the gaza area of the potential palestinian state, aren't they offspring? >> there are a lot of people who see very strong connections between the muslim brotherhood and hamas and basically they would say that the problem is a problem of violence that the israelis and hamas would have to sort out. but focusing on the muslim brotherhood to try to stall change in egypt is created more problems for egypt and for relations with the united states than actually solving them. >> don't let the people in the street who are secular be
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stopped by fear of the muslim brotherhood? >> one of the slogans we actually heard today from the demonstrators in cairo is we're not muslim brotherhood. people are aware that line may be used. >> a spokesperson told nbc we're not going for revenge. if he does leave and there are no more victims he can step down peacefully. but if mubarak continues to cling to office and there are more victims he will be put on trial by a new egyptian government. he put out a statement saying we're going to put this guy on trial which to me is fighting wards. if he knows he's facing islamic court somewhere. >> no doubt.
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>> i think that statement spoke for itself. these are not cocktail revolutionaries. these are doctors and lawyers and middle class people who have been feel that the regime has not performed. precisely because the regime didn't perform. if there was a natural catastrophe, the government did nothing. >> what do you think is going happen now? do you think that mubarak will hang in there for another couple months? >> could be right or wrong. anything could happen as we have seen with this whole thing. >> based on today, does he have the strength to hang in there. >> if i were to make a prediction he will hang in there for a few more days. bigger and bigger and bigger chunks of the international community seem to be cutting their bridges with them. he has real reason to think about his next step. if the street, if the protestors
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stay on the streets and i think we have seen enough will and organization on the part of the demonstrators to be able to put it off. >> peter? >> he hasn't been able to employ total repression. for ti for dictators that is a problem. >> i get the sense he is hanging in there. he is a strong man. he thinks he is a pharoah. he thinks he is egypt. it's a question whether he turns it over to suleiman. if he doesn't believe that will quell the rioting, what does he gain by stepping out of office? >> one quick thing, regardless of whether he steps or stays, remnants of the current regime will stay but his departure would be a major signal. >> where would he go? >> stepping down in one way or another. >> i don't think he wants to go
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to -- i think we're finding people moving to something here in the center. thank you for your expertise. good luck with your book. it's called -- >> "the longest war." >> up next, senator rand paul is unleashed. already cast some note worthy votes and now he wants to cut off aid to israel. his reasoning? you'll get it in the side show only on "hardball." can getting enough vegetables
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and more. if you replace 3 tablespoons of sugar a day with splenda® you'll save 100 calories a day. that could help you lose up to 10 pounds in a year. that's how splenda® is sweet...and more. back to "hardball." time for the side show. first a man with a mission. the tea party senator offered up his own budget. it cuts money from the budget and goes somewhere the
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republicans are loathe to go. >> they are an important ally but i also think that their per capita income is greater than probably three-fourths of the rest of the world. should we be giving free money or welfare to a rich nation? i don't think so. senator paul made a stand during yesterday's vote to criminalize aiming a hand held laser at an aircraft. he was the one and only nay vote on the bill. he says the states ought to take care of it. next, ever wonder what a rick presidency would look like? -- the real issue?
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the court is based in san francisco and known for issuing decisions that rile conservatives. maybe you would like to eliminate the city of san francisco. this week the new yorker magazine cover featured the major in this not so flattering pose unless you are mike bloomberg. his reaction? -- now for tonight's number. sarah palin's lawyer filed applications to trademark the name sarah palin. and that of her daughter, bristol palin. they're looking to protect the palin brand. that's tonight's number. patent application, sarah palin
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trademarks sarah palin. tonight's show me the money. big number. the unemployment rate drops sharpl sharply. i say 80%. you are watching "hardball." ♪ ♪ mama said there'd be days like this ♪ ♪ "there'll be days like this," mama said ♪ ♪ mama said, mama said ♪ mama said, "there'll be days like this" ♪
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here is your cnbc market wrap. stocks closing out their best week in two months. the nasdaq finished with a gain of 15 points. the unemployment rate fell to 9% in january but only 36,000 jobs were added and that was well
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below the 145,000 that economists were expecting. some of the strongest performers today after bank of america delivered a bullish round. you can see the big moves there. and retailers advanced on strong january sales despite that much of the spending is going on in the upper income prakts. a solid weekend for the markets. all of the indexes gained between two and three% for the week. eare first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." >> january's job numbers are out
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and they look good. they are down from 9.4% down to 9% but how many thousands of jobs? only 36,000 jobs which is less than economists expected. everyone is waiting for our economy to get better but how important are the numbers for president obama to keep his own job. >> todd, break it down. 9% employment looks better. >> absolutely. >> obviously if the numbers keep trending that way it will be better for president obama. >> it's good news for them.
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>> i'll talk to my wife about it tonight. >> when clinton was elected in 1996 and bush in '04, the unemployment was exactly the same thing. >> if you get to the low eight range, that's going be very good for barack obama. but we're supposed to create 120 jobs a month to keep up with population levels. we're supposed to create 200,000
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jobs a month -- rsh w >> who is out producing these jobs? >> we still have a hallow economy. the dow is over 12,000. it's sort of a jobless recovery. i think there is sort of a -- a lot will depend on if he is running against a republican candidate. >> is the vreset button going t be around eight? that can be bad. let me ask you about the president. >> and he's going to give an interview pregame to bill o'reilly. >> look, the president is not
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trying to win over bill o'reilly or even win over the hard core o'reilly audience. they are trying to mitigate some of the anger, the dislike that exists for him. >> he looks like an american. >> he is eating a pizza. >> for people who are not in that audience. bill, do you watch your own network? what do you think of glen beck? i'm just curious. there are a lot of ways you can do a jujitsu on this. >> if you want to get into howard, i think bill o'reilly is always angry. i can't figure out why. but he's not crazy. i think he has to be looked at.
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i think you have to look at the guy, how we are involved in it. the two bushes, by the way. they are protecting this. ancient babylon targets. >> do you think that glen beck is okay? i'm not -- i don't know. is he okay? >> i'm not allowed to discuss it. >> that's a no comment. so this question, then he's going to go on the chamber of commerce. totally trashed him in the last election. it is not your local chamber of commerce. totally a big corporation. they trashed president of the united states obama. >> smart. right now he is as far as he is going to possibly be from the date of his reelection. let's start checking off some of the boxes now. he will not probably meet with
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the chamber a year from now. you get to say that i did. if nothing comes out of it, he gets to say look, i tried. >> i was asking you guys during the break, is there somebody knew calling the wee he did the the american exceptionalism. he did the thing on religion. i don't think the president should have to talk about religion. now he is doing this meeting with the right. is he now -- what is he doing what they used to say in baseball. if you can win the games in the beginning of the year you don't have to win them in september. >> he's also not legislating. the first two years he was bogged down dealing with the hill. that's not going to happen now. he's going to fight with them on debt stealing but he's not going to be legislating. that leaves fighting and determining what the message is. when he goes and meeting with the chamber and talks to bill o'reilly. >> the chamber? i love the way you said that.
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>> what are you going do? you can't see the candidate. romney has been terrible by the way. he is so unimaginative. he talks like a robot. he is trying to prove he is a -- going to bring back all this whacky stuff just to stir up the crazies. >> even right now in a generic ballot against just generic republican candidate the president is only winning by three points. >> where are you going to find that at? >> generic is often better. >> they keep talking jeb bush. you are so desperate for a
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candidate. what is this guy doing? he walks out there. every minute he is basically saying romney is not going to make it. i'm better than him. romney was doing well then he wouldn't have to do that. >> i will give you one other number before you start patting yourselves on the back. george w. bush at this -- george h.w. bush this exact time in his administration had 82%. >> he won a war. >> look what happened. >> he was churchill. >> all of this is very fluid. comfort yourselves. >> we're going to talk about the super bowl in a minute. who is going to win this thing. >> i'm a jets fans so i'm going to route for the packers. >> the packers are going to win. >> that's a smart pick. todd, thank you very much. and david. we'll be right back. this sunday's super bowl and the two teams, the pittsburgh
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steelers and green bay packers are facing what the election is going to be about. remember? how about from pittsburgh to green bay? same terrain. that's what it's about. coming back we will have our own best sports caster in the washington area both coming back in just a minute. [ female announcer ] this is not a prescription. this is mary... who has a million things to pick up each month on top of her prescriptions. so she was thrilled that her walgreens pharmacist recommended a 3-month supply and would always be there
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this weekend, look at it. >> you don't have to make a pick again.
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>> i'm fwlad you didn't hit me when i said that i thought that green bay was going to win. the culture is really what you said. these are both blue collar teams and cities that really wrap their arms around these two football teams. obviously the pittsburgh steelers have won the super bowl six times. the packers have done that three. these are cultures that football is everything in these towns. flex, i don't know if you heard about this. it's very interesting. there is a hospital in pittsburgh that began wrapping all the newborn babies in terrible towels. i tweeted about the image. it really crosses cities but in
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pittsburgh, if you have been there for other games, even hockey games, you can see how hungry the fans are. green bay, their town is the packers. it really means closer to the same thing. >> notre dame is a football team right? >> exactly. actually that's the only pubically owned football team in the nfl. you have great ownership as well for the steelers. you can't say enough about the teams supporting -- both of the towns supporting them the say way. when you look on the football field, both of the teams match up. their quarter backs, to me, are the bigger story.
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ben rohas one two already. and aaron rogers, who you can argue was the hottest quarter back towards the end of the season. i think when you got somebody that is on his game in the zone. then also you have got ben who was out at a piano bar on tuesday. >> i heard all about it. drinking beer and braeaking the rules but apparently got back in time for the curfew. thank you for joining us. i know your pick. we have an expert coming up. ed does color commentary for the eagles. by the way, governor, i just found out today that the eagles got their name from the national recovery act, the new deal. they weren't named after a bird but a political event, the new deal, which is fascinating. >> i didn't know that.
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>> now you know. let's talk about the game. how important is football to the town of pittsburgh? your second city? >> pittsburgh has undergone a tremendous transformation. it was a steel town. the steelers are named after being a steel town like the packers being named after the meat packing industry. in that respect, this is a great super bowl. two original nfl teams. two teams that were named for their industrial greatness and their cities. there are two. >> he gets interviewed by bill o'reilly in the pregame on sunday he gets to talk to some of the most vigorous fans in the
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country. the ice bowl people. the people the north always vote for. i always vote for the eastern team and then they vote for the non-expansion teams because i don't believe in the expansion teams. i like who we started with but that's big city. say to these g in you know the election is going to depend on pennsylvania, ohio, indiana and michigan. it's going to depend on him. >> he should say what you and i say. this is a great game because it's the heritage of the nfl, it's the heritage of industrial america, and he should say that neither green bay or pittsburgh would have ever canceled a football game because of snow. no way. >> let's talk about who's going to win this thing? >> i think the steelers are -- >> can you speak now that you're not governor of pennsylvania, can you speak freely as a political expert and as a sports expert? >> i think the steelers are a better balanced team. i think green bay has some problems in the secondary and green bay has more weaknesses.
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the steelers have virtually no weakness weaknesses. a lot of people would say let's ride the hot horse and the hot horse is green bay. bun roethlisberger, i heard you talk about him, he knows what it takes to win. i have a hunch this is going to be a close game. it's not going to be as high scoring as people expect. the it's not going to be a 0-0 game either, but i think in the end ben roethlisberger will do what's necessary for pittsburgh to win. that's what i believe. i saw green bay play the eagles in the first round of the playoffs. the eagles played a lousy game, yet we were a foot and a half -- if michael vick lobbed that last pass a foot and a half more, eagles would have won the game. >> michael vick coming back next year? >> he's the most impressive athlete, bar none.
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>> thank you very much, governor ed rendell. i want to go back is lindsay still there? we're going to stay with you, ed. let me ask you about this whole question of your part of the country in pennsylvania, i look at this election, if it were held today for president, if we had this election moved up 18 month, i would be worried for the democrats. i worry that they would not win wisconsin, they would not -- based on what just happened in november. would probably not win indiana, i think definitely not win indiana. would have a real hard time carrying ohio and would probably squeak pennsylvania. is that a good assessment right now where they stand? >> well, sure, except for one thing. you don't know who the opponent is. if it's a referendum, yes or no or barack obama, your able sis might -- analysis might be right. it was a good leadership vision speech and i think people are starting to think of imh as a leard. and who's he going to run
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against? you can't tell me how hard it's going to be in an individual facilitate until you tell me who their opponent is? >> why are the republicans unable to come with a star? they look like they're still pining for jeb. >> well, i think the problem is there's a huge split in the republican party, mitt romney would be the candidate. but mitt romney, i don't think can get the nomination because of health care. >> thanks so much. thank you very much, governor ed rendell. rooting for the pittsburgh steelers. when we return, the 100th anniversary of the birth of ronald reagan. we have some thoughts on that. ♪ now the healing power of touch just got more powerful. introducing precise from the makers of tylenol. precise pain relieving cream works quickly
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>> let me finish tonight in what i believe is an important statement on the presidency of ronald reagan. i should start with a pair of complaints. i think the stewardship of this planet is vital, literally, to the living things upon it. and that includes us. since we're the only thinking beings on the planet, we have the innate duty to protect it. i don't think ronald reagan took that duty to heart. it got in the way of his belief of unbound free enterprise and honestly, i don't see how you can call free an activity that destroys the very environment in which freedom lives. i don't think he grasped what it was like to be a regular american.
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i'm talking about regular people who worked for a paycheck, who get stuck in place where is there are scant options for making it. i don't think he had a bad heart, he just didn't open his eyes to the fact that some people need that safety net. need social security, need medicare, need help with tuition bills or other breaks in life. and the government is the one institution there to ensure those things. those two powerful impediments taken into consideration, i have three good things to say about ronald reagan, which will place him high in our history books and should. he took the hits that came with life -- a bad marriage that was not his fault, a tv business can be almost as tough and a political world that can be very tough, extremely tough on those who don't chart their courses. he surmounted all these challenges to build a great life and career, and most important, to offer america the leader it needed and has come to revere. for what he did in bringing the cold war to a close, there can
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be no denials, no tut-tuting, he saw what was ham haping in the kremlin. he took the message personally of the soviet leader. he saw the galloping horse of history and he leapt upon it when no one else on the right had the daring to do it. and it had to be someone on the right jump into that particular saddle, just as it took charles de gaulle to hop aboard that plane to britain, leaving his country who didn't see history as a rival. president reagan did something else. he was a tremendous chronicler, not of the details of our american history, no, but its theme. the great long struggle against communi communism. he heard our music even when it faded. he saw a country of freedom and opportunity that can be, has been a land of courage. it's an american legacy to be deeply, deeply proud of all in all. and ronald reagan, the man made us feel this